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Postby van » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:40 am

Kia ora

The following came across my desk the other day

""An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation. We must take steps to insure our domestic security and protect our homeland."

It is reminiscent of the reason the "Patriot Act" and "Homeland Security" came into existence and why war is waged in the ME, yet it's author was none other then Adolf Hitler
History has a tendency to repeat itself

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Postby emanresu » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:58 am

Rather than comment on such a tired device, I think this link sums it up.
http://beautifulatrocities.com/archives ... ure_e.html
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Postby Skinjob » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Yes, everything is "Hitler" these days. It makes one wonder if the one's using that analogy really know anything about Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
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Postby AJRC_CS » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:37 pm

Yes, history does repeat itself. The same fears and paranoia are spread right across time, from the Ancient Greeks to present day America. We see the same kind of leaders proclaiming that there is a threat to their nation and because of this war is justified. There will always be a threat, and there will always be a fearful leader and there will always be war in some form or another. History is in a perpetual loop, we are doomed to have the same fears and fight the same wars for all eternity.

It's quite depressing really.
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Postby van » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:59 pm

Kia ora

"Divide and Rule" has always been the tool used by those seeking to consolidate their power
To this end it is notable that the same rhetoric keeps surfacing, yet the masses continue to keep swallowing it!

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Postby pilvikki » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:36 pm

no kidding, aj...

as for hitlernisms, what was the point of wikipedia disection of the various aspects of hitler et al? most of us are not stupid enough to connect dogs with being crazy.
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Postby Yogi » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:38 pm

emanresu wrote:Rather than comment on such a tired device, I think this link sums it up.
http://beautifulatrocities.com/archives ... ure_e.html


Granted that the Hitler analogy is becoming trite, I am wondering how that makes Bush's methods of protecting his homeland any better than those of Hitler's. If we are to endorse the current administration's security policies because he is doing the right thing, then we must also credit Hitler for doing what he believed to be in the best interests of his country as well.
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Postby pilvikki » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:40 am

i think the hitlers have been mixed up, or at least i think i think there once was a hitler who truly wanted to look after his country and people, but became unhinged and was more on a personal glory train after a while. still, i'm no expert on the subject.
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Postby van » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:44 pm

Kia ora

The propaganda (history written by the victors) will always sway the populace to accept rather then examine for themselves what realy ocurred
To point out to them that there is a similarity in rhetoric and practice of their own beloved leaders to those "dictators" which have been condemned is always denied
I have just had another quick read about the Treaty of Versailles and it confirms that such manipulation of defeated peoples will not lead to peace, but rather resentment
Of interest are some of the comments expressed by those who oversaw the process predicting that violence would once again erupt

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Postby pilvikki » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:58 pm

but it already has!
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Postby Silke » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:52 am

hitler <i> was</i> doing what he (and not only he) thought was best for his country. The country was lower than low after world war one, he gave them the opportunely to rise again. That might not have been the only thing he did, but he didn't do anything worse than what war does.

... I have heard he was good at music as well...
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Postby pilvikki » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:42 pm

i beg to differ, silke, he was a friggin psycho. war does NOT do that to everybody or we'd all be deader than the dodo.
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Postby ohlia » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:31 pm

Silke wrote:hitler <i> was</i> doing what he (and not only he) thought was best for his country. The country was lower than low after world war one, he gave them the opportunely to rise again. That might not have been the only thing he did, but he didn't do anything worse than what war does.

... I have heard he was good at music as well...


How can murdering of six million people be good for his, or any other country for that matter? Yes, true war takes many lives, but Hitler taking the lives of those innocent people, adults and children is unfathomable and merciless; there is no rationalization for pre-meditated killings. I see no justification for his ruthless act.
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Postby pilvikki » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:54 pm

they had not declared war on him, in fact, they just minded their own business. or tried to. they also were "his people".

and sure thing, the country was in the toilet at the time and he promissed jobs and brought the economy up but if he'd only left it at that...

i have a wartime stamp marked 1 billion deutchmarks. that can't be good for the country?
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Postby van » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:30 am

Kia ora

Marjaana and Lia, Silke has a point
Germany was humiliated, primarily by America and its insistence on the Treaty of Versailles(the truth is of course much deeper then that)
The murder of "six million people" has been treated like a church liturgy
What about all the millions that have perished over the centuries at the hands of conquering nations in their desire for Empire?
Why no memorial to them nor for that matter recognition?, only denial!!!
Where does the current justification lie in the anihilation of those in the ME?
What about the millions of Russians who perished breaking Hitlers army?
Where is their acknowledgement?
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But then again, both religion and politics (bed-fellows) have had many centuries to hone their skills in deviousness!

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Postby Skinjob » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:33 pm

Stalin murdered more people than Hitler. Where is your sense of outrage about Communism? Huh? Hitler was a fiend. What about Stalin?

Leftists tend to choke on that truth, and others.
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Postby van » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:57 pm

Kia ora Skinjob

Stalin murdered more people than Hitler. Where is your sense of outrage about Communism? Huh? Hitler was a fiend. What about Stalin?


What is the point in being outraged?
Rage blinds the mind to reason
What about the millions of deaths caused by America? directly and indirectly

In the case of Stalin pray tell me who was responsible for the greater part of those outrages, the organisation within his govt and its primary officers? I wonder if you know or care

You seem to regard your white western supremacy as having a God given unquestionable right to rule the world and thus excuse your own excesses
History however paints a different picture, but then again , not your strong point is it?

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Postby spithray » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:05 pm

In fairness, Hitler was a political genius and was quite rightly voted Time magazine's man of the year in 1938 and was shortlisted for their man of the century. He just took things a bit too far.
As for the 6 million murdered, of course there is a rational reason, otherwise why would he have bothered to do it. The fact that most of the rest of the world disagreed is neither here nor there. It just comes down to morals and ethics, which are all very much subjective.
And the 'reduction to Hitler' argument doesn't actually apply here, if you read the article. The original thread made a perfectly reasonable comparison. I suppose one of the differences is that Hitler, at the time, had the support of the vast majority of his country, something the current US administration seems to be lacking.
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Postby pilvikki » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:53 pm

there have been many insane rulers, and that still does not make hitler any saner.

my mother worked with hitler's officers so i got this as second hand information, not from any book i read. those officers were doctors, lawyers, architects and engineers, ergo not promoted just because they were friends with someone.
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Postby van » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:05 pm

Kia ora Marjaana

The debate is not about sanity, but perhaps more about charisma that some leaders use to further their own ends, repeatedly using the same propaganda to beat the drums to bestir within people an irrational devotion to leader and cause

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