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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:41 pm
by Yogi
Those who would attribute N. Korea's and Iran's nuclear ambitions to long gone Democratic presidents seem to be incapable of seeing the trees through the forest. Prior to 9/11 the United States took on the role of using it's power to keep the peace. It was often a reluctant role, but it was one assumed with the blessing of most Western countries. After all, they did not have to defend themselves if our soldiers stationed in their countries would do it for them. We certainly did engage in conflicts during the last 50+ years, but it was perceived as being for all the right reasons.

Bush broke precedent when he preemptively attacked Iraq without the blessing of many of our allies. Bush's policy of going it alone was such a bold move that it struck fear into the hearts of both friend and foe. The sudden need to possess nuclear arms by N. Korea and Iran is the direct result of the aggressive military policies of the current administration.

Carter, Clinton, Nixon, and Reagan all acted with restraint as leaders of the most powerful nation on earth, but Bush could not continue that trend. He has in fact scrapped the idea of mutually assured destruction (MAD) that all nuclear powers have been following until recently, and he has his military advisers planning for survival in a nuclear war. With that mind set clearly being demonstrated in Bush's foreign policies, it is not surprising in the least that more nations want to defend themselves from us and acquire the nuclear weapons to do so.

All I know is that nuclear non-proliferation was a viable concept until Bush came along. And if you want to whine about Clinton dealing with China, maybe you would care to explain why Bush is dealing with India first.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:57 pm
by Bedford
Carter and Clinton's idiot Sec. of State, Madame Not-at-Allbright gave North Korea nuclear technology with "promises" that it would never be used for weapons. Anyone with any brains knew it would end up being used for weapons.

The reason Bush didn't get "blessings" is because those countries were getting bribes from Hussein. Bush cleared that hornet's nest out, for which he will eventually be praised for.

The USA doesn't get oil from Iran, and maybe shutting off oil to the rest of the world will wake some up to take Iran seriously. if they won't, then screw them. We would be paying only $1 a gallon if we would be allowed to get our own oil, instead of the eco-whackos having the Democrats rape the USA by not letting us get to it.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:02 pm
by van
Kia ora

and a man from Texas should be able to figure that one out quite easily.


The same man who got this mess going in the first place??

Arohanu
Shalom
Bill

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:10 pm
by Skinjob
Iraq was not a "preemptive" strike; Iraq was a continuation of Desert Storm where they shot at our planes, pursued weapons of mass destruction, and violated at least 14 United Nations Security Council Resolutions, all in violation of the "Cease Fire" agreement. Also, they harbored terrorists. The United Nations was not relavant anymore, because it is run by terrorists and criminals, and has nothing to offer America and the free world. Coming up with Security Council Resolutions but not enforcing them places the U.N. in the impotent cut-dog category. We need out.

Considering the mess in the Mideast, and the 25 years of terrorist attacks on Americans, and the 2nd attack on the Trade Towers with 3000 Americans killed, it was time to establish a base in the region, meaning Iraq. That alone justifies the Iraq war. We have a choice, we can turn it into a parking lot, or we can change their government. Regardless of the media lies, we are winning in Iraq, and the Iraqis want us there.

Isn't it strange that the leftists are bedfellows with the terrorists, or is it? Fascism is a form of socialism, and Islamo-Fascism is still Fascism.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:08 am
by van
Kia ora Skinjob

I am trying to categorize you
We have a similar complaint here in NZ, generally refered to as "VICTIM" mentality
ie Those awarded "Darwin Awards" are not responsible for their actions, they have been indoctrinated to such an extent they firmly believe it is not their fault, but the fault of the rest of the world for not protecting them from themselves from the Bloody Liberal, Fascist, Commie, Leftist Bastards etc

"There is no fool like an old fool" particularly if of a fundamentalist nature

Still I am sure that Halleujah Chorus rings loud and clear

Have a nice day, I did!

Arohanui
Shallom
Bill

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:28 am
by AJRC_CS
skinjob wrote:Isn't it strange that the leftists are bedfellows with the terrorists


Yes, of course they are. Just more bait. :roll:

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:29 am
by bermbits
Iraq was an arrogant son's desire to finish what his father started. It was supposed to be a "cakewalk," a feather in a hat, not a fiasco.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:34 am
by Skinjob
No, not "bait". Walking down the street in San Francisco or London with your fly unzipped is bait. :lmao2:

This just in ...

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:51 pm
by Yogi

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:37 pm
by bermbits
Actually, I am surprised we've waited this long.

Show of force? Sounds like "shock and awe" to me. If I were Iran, I'd be shaking in my figurative boots right about now.....

:roll:

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:33 pm
by Bedford
Well, we've proven we can get rid of problematic leaders...it's the fine details afterwards that is a problem.

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:46 pm
by bermbits
Except for Bush, you have that right!

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:25 pm
by AJRC_CS
Is this show of force the same as having 160000 troops next door in Iraq? Oh yeah that really seemed to scare President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad didn't it. :roll:

I think this will simply embolden a person like Mahmoud, to harden his resolve against the west. The more force that is shown, the more interest China and Russia will show. They won't allow Iran to become just another gas pump, and Mahmoud will know this.

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:37 pm
by van
Kia ora

"Gunboat Diplomacy", "Sabre Rattling"??

Arohanui
Shalom
Bill

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:45 am
by bermbits
I honestly thought we'd have done something before now, but I still think it's coming... now that the real president is speaking:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18834.html

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:18 am
by AJRC_CS
I'm also surprised that Dubya hasn't done the same to Iran as he did with Iraq, and launch a massive preemptive strike. I think his failure in Iraq has actually made him think this time. I also think we should be very careful when reading any "intelligence" from the GOP, we all know what happened last time when we trusted the GOP's "intelligence."

I tend to think Iran is a threat, but it's not the reason behind so much anti-American feeling in the Middle East. To say it is, is using Iran simply as a scapegoat, and obviously to use the allegations as a reason to suck Iran dry of all it's oil. Sorry, i mean take down Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and bring freedom to the Iranian people. :biggrin:

I think with China and Russia both sabre rattling again after a long nap, Dubya will have to think long and hard before going it alone again. Also i just don't think he has the backers in his own party he once did, the GOP won't want to have another failure just before the Presidential elections.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:47 am
by bermbits
"I think his failure in Iraq has actually made him think this time."

I doubt he sees any failure in Iraq. I also doubt he is capable of much true "thought."

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:22 am
by Bedford
Dubya is smarter than you two combined. :teach:

It has been suggested that there is no way Bush would allow Iran to have nuke technology. If by some fluke a Democrat gets the Presidency in 2008, it would be as funny as hell for Bush to launch the attack on Iran on January 18, 2009. Seeing the leftists twits in Congress and the delusionist lefties on here squirm would be an endless riot.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:54 pm
by AJRC_CS
More bait Bedford? :roll:

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:45 am
by bermbits