Gasoline price are higher.

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Gasoline price are higher.

Postby Skinjob » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:11 pm

The Democrat Congress promised to lower gasoline prices, yet gasoline has risen everywhere to over 3 dollars per gallon in many places. What gives? Empty promises again?
Sixty miles per gallon? Not really. Cheap? Nope. Phoney and stupid? Yes, the Prius is global warming on 4 wheels.
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Re: Gasoline price are higher.

Postby Yogi » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:36 pm

The price of crude rose recently as tensions increased over Iran's capture of British sailors. Supplies from the middle east were being threatened. Congress has no control over panic buying I'm sorry to report.

Previous to that increase the warm(?) weather created an increased demand on supplies and put upward pressures on prices because refineries are operating at near full capacity This phenomena is a cyclic event that occurs every year at this time. It even occurred during the time Republicans were in full control. Back then the average price went over $3 a gallon, but we can't rightfully blame the Republicans (or Democrats) for the laws of supply and demand.

Back in November, shortly after it was made clear that the Democrats were taking charge, the price of crude dropped by $15 a barrel. I have no explanation for why that occurred.
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Postby van » Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:39 am

Kia ora Skinjob

Prices fluctuate via demand and supply or manipulation via media
In a Communist situation, promises made by Govt means that the govt pays the difference, also known as "subsidies"
In the Capitalist system, if there is a chance to screw the consumer, let's do it, also known as "price gouging", witness the aftermath of Katrina

Your Chimp in Chief, promised Iraq would be a "walk-over", I see no complaints from you regarding promises not kept on his behalf!

Have a nice day, smell the roses, makes you feel much better

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Postby googie egg » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:00 am

The cheque is in the mail, I won't do it in your mouth and anything a politican says... why does anyone still pretend to believe these lies?
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Postby bermbits » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:36 am

(Googie!!!!! Welcome!!!!!)

It's still under Bush's watch.
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Postby Yogi » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:34 am

van wrote:Kia ora SkinjobPrices fluctuate via demand and supply or manipulation via media
In a Communist situation, promises made by Govt means that the govt pays the difference, also known as "subsidies"
In the Capitalist system, if there is a chance to screw the consumer, let's do it, also known as "price gouging", witness the aftermath of Katrina


Would it be possible to cite some explicit instances where the media manipulated the price of oil? I'd be interested in learning how that works.

As I currently understand it, the delivery system for crude oil is highly influenced by events that are relatively unpredictable, such as wars and natural disasters. That is why the delivery contracts are traded in the "futures" market. The prices are determined by what the speculators and other buyers predict the future availability will be. Since nobody knows exactly what the future will be, a lot of hedging goes on. Prices soar when threats are merely possible, such as hurricane season in major refinery segments of the country, or the taking of hostages in Arabian waters. The media does in fact report current events, but they hardly control the price of oil futures.

I admit that once the crude is delivered and refined, the oil companies then control the price for consumer products. Their profits may or may not be excessive, but the profit is added after the delivery price has been calculated. None the less, that too is controlled by supply and demand.

Subsidies exist in all economies and those for oil exploration may still be in effect here. I'm really not sure about that. I do know the government controls the rights for exploration in many potentially productive oil fields, and that is where politics may have its greatest influence. However, those political manipulations have nothing to do with the current price of crude oil nor the demand for it's products by consumers.

I'm not sure how it's done down under, but up here the price of oil products (gasoline in particular) is pretty much the result of forces in a free and open market. Our capitalist system allows for corporations to maximize their profits, unlike a communist economy, and that incentive to stay in business does get exploited from time to time. At the end of the day it is the consumers who have ultimate control over the prices, and at the moment we have a lot of SUV owners in charge. :D
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Postby van » Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:31 pm

Kia ora Dennis

The recent media speculation of an attack on Iran drove the price up to $70 a barrel
The release of the Brits drove the price down
The media like oil is controlled by a few and an article in the media can and does affect what people do, ie panic buying etc

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Postby Yogi » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:04 pm

I understand what you are saying, but don't confuse the roles played by the messenger and the perpetrators. Each dollar increase in the price of a barrel of oil brings in about a billion dollars to the Iranian economy. Given that information, do you still think it's a media ploy? If you do, then you are also selling the oil futures brokers short on intelligence. I'm sure there is manipulation of crude oil prices, but the media's role in all that is insignificant.
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Postby van » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:22 pm

Kia ora Dennis

Fair comment

Each dollar increase in the price of a barrel of oil brings in about a billion dollars to the Iranian economy. Given that information, do you still think it's a media ploy?


A billion for Iran, how many billions for the oil companies?

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Postby Skinjob » Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:14 pm

We don't use Iranian oil here in the states. Keeping with the philosophy of a free market, the supply and demand sets the price. That's fair. Government parasites meddling in free enterprise is what is unfair.
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Postby Yogi » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:20 pm

van wrote:Kia ora Dennis

Fair comment

Each dollar increase in the price of a barrel of oil brings in about a billion dollars to the Iranian economy. Given that information, do you still think it's a media ploy?


A billion for Iran, how many billions for the oil companies?

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You apparently don't understand what I'm getting at Bill.

Each dollar increase in the price of oil is a direct profit for sellers, such as Iran. Each dollar increase in the price of oil is an expense for the buyers, such as oil companies. I don't doubt there is some gouging going on from time to time, but the oil companies are just as much victims of high market prices as you and I are. If they inflate their profits too much, they get investigated - here in the states anyway - and people stop buying as much. Oil companies definitely are in business to make a profit, but they can't afford to be investigated and regulated. OPEC, on the other hand, has no such constraints.

I'm not sure what the Democrats had in mind to lower the price of oil, but I do know they are blowing smoke when they say it. The only influence congress has on the price of oil is the federal tax they add to the sale of gasoline. I haven't heard any proposals to remove or lower that tax. So I don't put a lot into what politicians say about their ability to regulate a free market commodity.
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Postby Bedford » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:32 pm

They could also open up ANWR the the Florida coast for drilling, but they get too much from the eco-whackos to prevent.

Funny how the eco-whackos won't allow the USA to drill for oil in the Gulf, but say nothing when Mexico or Cuba does it.

Pretty much says it all; its not about the environment...it's about persecuting the USA for imagined wrongs.
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Postby van » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:12 am

Kia ora Dennis

Each dollar increase in the price of oil is a direct profit for sellers, such as Iran. Each dollar increase in the price of oil is an expense for the buyers, such as oil companies.


I beg to differ
The primary producer in all basic commodities gets f!#$k all!
Have you ever noticed that when the price of a barrel goes up by 1%, the price of fuel at the pumps ups by 10%?
As the goods pass down the line, profit margins are added, including refining, processing and shipping plus retailer markups
Who delivers petrol to a Shell petrol station? A Shell tanker!
The obscene profits of the oil companies have become well known recently!

but they can't afford to be investigated and regulated. OPEC, on the other hand, has no such constraints.


Again I differ
Since when has there been a "will" to "investigate and regulate" big business?
OPEC is regulated via supply and demand, perhaps via the market (futures trading? I have no idea, but am sure they have an awareness)
They may elect to raise the price arbitrarily, yet when their freespending habits are threatened rapidly reduce it
Of course not all oil producers are OPEC and a price difference has everyone scrambling to buy the others

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Postby Yogi » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:25 am

Bill, I'm no expert, but I know enough to say that you need to read up on what it takes to convert a barrel of crude into a gallon of petrol/gasoline.

I'm a firm believer in free enterprise and it's been proven over and over again that there is such a thing as a "smart market" wherein all the factors are calculated into the fair price of basic commodities. A whole world, literally, of experts conspire to determine what the fair price is. I also strongly believe in a corporation's right to maximize their profits. That stimulates competition which in turn promotes efficiency and innovation. There is no better system on earth.

Having said all the above, I still stand by my beliefs even knowing about this kind of thing: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/070407/occident ... .html?.v=1
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Postby van » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:11 pm

Kia ora Dennis

I have no problem with the spirit of free enterprise, so long as that applies to everyone
Alas that no longer is the case in my opinion
In the past I have run my own business, which started from humble beginnings, merely taking some tools and filling a customers request
Because there were many others at that time, you had to be competitive in your pricing etc
Nowadays that is no longer possible, at least here
The bureaucrats have managed to pass legislation, requiring registration, compliancing etc, that rather then encourage private enterprise to start up, is strangling it
Even businesses with a long history are being forced to the wall due to this, leaving the big boys with no competition/ opposition, and the public at the mercy of "pay or else"
It is even getting to the ridiculous stage whereby home repair work in your own home is no longer permissible
Mind many like myself take no notice and go ahead and do it anyway
The reckoning may come when I try to sell my house, but that is of no concern to me
The value of the land is sufficient compensation

I also strongly believe in a corporation's right to maximize their profits. That stimulates competition which in turn promotes efficiency and innovation. There is no better system on earth.


I beg to differ
Maximising profits results in monopolies, that while being of benefit to corporate entity, brings little benefit to the customer
Competition is bought out merely increasing the monopoly

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Postby Skinjob » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:23 am

The "corporate entity" is where the jobs are, not from socialist bureaucrats that neither sow nor reap, but consume other people's production. The retirement checks come from the ordinary man's investments in the stock market. Those invetments provide retirement benefits, like the ones I have. In fact, I don't use the principle of the invested money; I live off the interest it brings in. Who owns those "corporate entitiies"? We do, the workers and the investors.

That system works, and it has worked a long time. The only time it ceases to function well is when the government gets overloaded with socialist bureaucrats, control freaks, that think they know more about Economics than the market. That market consists of we stockholders, owners, and investors.

As you can see, purely socialist systems with their controlling bureaucrats fail every time. It is only when they can suck from the backs of others can they continue to feed themselves. They allow just enough capitalism to support their thieving system. Ultimately totalitarian, moronic Socialism is a make-believe world that does not correct poverty, but spreads it around.

The petroleum industry is crippled with taxes, regulations, propaganda, and politics; all targeting the free enterprise system. The oil producers have to sell the oil, but the leftists and other America haters know that the life blood of America and industry is oil; so of course they target it with everything in the book.
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Postby van » Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:08 pm

:lmao1:
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