Have good manners gone COMPLETELY out of style???

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Postby meadow » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:25 pm

Silke: i care more about the people in my life than you can even fathom. i just don't need someone to come to my defense, i can defend myself. that's my point. you strike me very much as the type that needs defending.

of course you are entitled to any opinion you wish. i'm entitled to challenge and call you out on it if i feel it necessary. and if i feel you are being a total idiot about it? then, yeah, i'm going to find it completely necessary to tell you so. i don't sugarcoat what i say for anyone, ever. not my style. much like your style is very non-confrontational and you refuse to ever "attack"...my style is the opposite. and it will continue to be so as long as i've got a mind, a breath to breathe and a will to live!

i've pretty much has people basically state for all intents and purposes that someone who doesn't have children couldn't possibly understand what it's like. i find that not only completely full of bullshit, but also extremely insulting. mothers are not more special than non-mothers. period.

so much for all that psycho-babble of yours! i'll be who i am and you can definitely like it or lump it. there is nothing safe or familiar in my life so please, continue to make stupid assumptions about me and my state of being. it's kinda hilarious and i get a big laugh out of them!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby Silke » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:09 am

if that is how you understood what I was saying you were missing the point.

no one has even now said that mothers are more special than others.

...and I´ve never said which of those "sides" I agree with.

Now I understand why people get accused of beeing another person on internett than in real life. Your description of me is the first of its kind against many the oposite way. I find it amusing as well, as you do how I presieve you.
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Postby meadow » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:17 pm

oh, except for that you probably think i have no real life friends and i rant on streetcorners...i'm pretty much the same in real life. i don't tolerate: fools, idiots, stupid people, assholes, jerks and people who are rude to my face. even friends will get the brunt of my irritation if they do something stupid and rude to me. when i'm wrong, i apologize. but since i don't really open my mouth unless i mean what i say in that moment? i don't apologize much.

your perception of me is probably close but the biggest difference is that i don't really CARE what YOU THINK of me!! yep, i do not CARE!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby chicklin » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:58 am

Personally, when I give a present, I take a lot of care to find something I think the person I'm giving it to will really like.
After that, its not so much that I EXPECT a 'thank you', but more that I HOPE they liked it enough to WANT to thank me. Not for the amount of money I spent, nor the time spent shopping for it, but for the fact that I think enough of them to want to give them the present in the first place, and that they appreciate my care choosing something especially for them.

A simple 'thank you' in whatever form it may take....a note, a phone call, an email, whatever, doesn't take much effort and cost nothing but it gives pleasure to the giver to just have their thought acknowledged.

I dont expect a big hoo-ha about it, but I just like to know I got something right and that they liked it.

I have two relatives who I never seem to get it right with, no matter how hard I try....one always either gives it right back to me (and anyone else) saying she 'wouldnt use that' or 'its not her sort of thing' and the other person never ever even says a simple 'thanks'.
For these two people I have now completely lost heart. I'm convinced that they'll hate whatever I give them so now I don't bother.....I just buy the cheapest thing I can find, and I put no effort into the choosing....then when they dont like it my feelings aren't hurt yet again, cos I knew what the reaction would be.

Its all a case of simple good manners, I was taught them and I try always to use them.
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Postby pilvikki » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:39 pm

oh come on! you buy presents for people such as that???? you've got to be kidding! i'd not waste the time putting it into a plastic bag, relatives or not!

it has become a control issue, turn it around on them.
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Postby chicklin » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:48 am

pilvikki wrote:oh come on! you buy presents for people such as that???? you've got to be kidding! i'd not waste the time putting it into a plastic bag, relatives or not!

it has become a control issue, turn it around on them.



....one's my mother!!! :roll: what can I say?
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Postby meadow » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:37 am

pfft...why won't anyone tell her to her face she's being unforgivably RUDE?

i'd just buy her a card and tell her that when she decides to enjoy gift giving...i'd be happy to oblige.

i can't imagine anyone in my immediate family being that rude to me or each other. that's just not right at all.
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby pilvikki » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:23 am

i'm with meadow on this one, mothers are supposed to be people, too, and even when they think they're above mere mortals are still expected to behave civilly.
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Postby chicklin » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:35 pm

I agree, but I put it down to her being old and crotchety! :lol:

The silly thing is....she was the one who taught me my manners in the first place!!.......I think she's just forgotten them or doesn't see what she does as being either hurtful or rude..........and I'm too damn polite to tell her. :roll:

I just live with it now, she does it to other members of the family, not just me so I try not to take it personally, I just don't put any effort into choosing............but thats not good either, cos then I feel like a mean daughter.....oh well :(
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Postby Silke » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:21 pm

chicklin wrote:Personally, when I give a present, I take a lot of care to find something I think the person I'm giving it to will really like.
After that, its not so much that I EXPECT a 'thank you', but more that I HOPE they liked it enough to WANT to thank me. Not for the amount of money I spent, nor the time spent shopping for it, but for the fact that I think enough of them to want to give them the present in the first place, and that they appreciate my care choosing something especially for them.


That is exactly what I´m after. I don´t want people to thank me to be polite, but to thank me because they mean it!

My mother has been nice enugh to say to me she doesn´t want presents. What useful can I get her that she doesn´t allready have? Not much; what she didn´t have the man of her dreams had. She told me if I wanted to give her a presant I should ship off the money to this 3-world kid they are paying university for.... Good enugh deal for me. I stil buy her presants when I come across something that screams to me that she needs it, and her eyes tells me she is stil happy for it.

chickliln: She doesn´t care for your gifts because she won´t need it or use it? fine. Buy her food or household items as soap or other cleaning devices people <i>use</i>. Last christmas I bought mustard for my step-father (everyone was laughing at me, but I couldn´t find anything, so...). He said it was the best gift he had been given for ages, because he actually needed it.

Meadow: I don´t think you have no real life friends. Honestly. I don´t think you rant on streetcorners, unless that is a coincidence. For one who don´t tolerate fools, idiots, stupid people, assholes, jerks and people who are rude to your face, you demand very much tolerance on others part.
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Postby solana » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:50 pm

Personally, when I give a present, I take a lot of care to find something I think the person I'm giving it to will really like



I think we all do this.. or hope we do..

I tend to go with gift cards, as I said, but often they are for vet care or food or gas.... take out pizza..
or stores that I know they like....

This is, I think the best of all worlds.... getting what you need or like or want...
people seem to have so much nowadays....... getting them something they do not have is harder than it used to be..
Always, these cards have been appreciated...


and silke... i agree with you
.fcv/v"
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Postby meadow » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:52 pm

silke and solana: sorry, you are wrong. awww! oops!

i just refuse to spend any more time than absolutely necessary with people who must be like you! i've got plenty of great, awesome, kick ass and amazing friends.

i've had friends that i made in 1978. i've been best friends with my BFF since oh....1988? but i've known her since 1982. same for Patrick, met him way back in 1985.

so, sorry...your theories can go right where they actually belong...where the damn sun don't shine.

i don't need people around me constantly reassuring me how wonderful, thoughtful, great and terrific i am. i don't need to talk to someone every day to know they are meaningful and special to me and my life. i also don't need fake ass friends who act like they care when they are only around because it's convenient.

sorry you've both managed to end up as that sort of friend. oops! i mean...uh...i'm sure you are both GREAT friends to ALL THOSE FRIENDS you have in your all the time daily life! i don't need that constant source of self-esteem, thanks!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby solana » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:16 am

chickliln: She doesn´t care for your gifts because she won´t need it or use it? fine. Buy her food or household items as soap or other cleaning devices people use. Last christmas I bought mustard for my step-father (everyone was laughing at me, but I couldn´t find anything, so...). He said it was the best gift he had been given for ages, because he actually needed it.


There is nothing in the world wrong with that...

I buy my step dad candy that he likes..
or a bucket filled with car cleaning supplies... not fancy.... but perfect for him.

One of the things I give new babies is plain old tee shirts and socks or jammies... in larger sizes....
those 6-9 mos sizes are outgrown fast and practicality sets in..
thats my key to giving..
practicality

meadow...what are you talking about....? I am baffled once again...what I give.. or silke is up to us...
.fcv/v"
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Postby forumadmin » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:31 am

Image Several posts were deleted because they went off topic, involved personal attacks on individuals, and turned into a chat session.
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Postby Nathaniel » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:36 pm

meadow wrote:Nathaniel: and why do you feel the need to come and jump to your friend's defense? i find that very interesting. and says more about her than you can imagine that someone feels they must defend poor, little Silke. how about you let her fight her own battles? if she chooses to not fight, that's her problem. and it's definitely something noticable!


I'm not very often on this site, but hey, I might as well give my answer now, before I read on and forget it.

I wasn't defending Silke. That, she is quite capable of doing herself. I'm not going to defend myself, either, because I didn't do anything wrong.

The fact is that I stated a fact, as simple as that.

AND as for the gift-giving.... A gift is a gift and if you give with your entire heart and being, that gift will be appreciated no matter what. And you'll be able to see it on the reciever, too, if you know the person even just a little, and that should be enough for anyone.

It sounds to me like you give just because you want to get something back, Meadow.... That isn't the purpose of giving.
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Postby meadow » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:25 pm

Nathaniel: are you serious? you showed up and only posted in one post in an entire awesome forum. and that was to give your little buddy a pat on the back and some much needed help. it's nice but i don't see your point in conveniently showing up just as the argument heated up, making some point about how nice Silke is and then leaving.

sorry, but you are so far off base you are swimming in the ocean about 20 miles off the shore. when i give a gift, i give it. when i don't receive some kind of thank you in some form [i never said i expect a thank you card. this is 2007. we have phones, text messaging, email and the Internet.] i know that person is selfish, small hearted and undeserving of another gift from my heart and hard earned purse. i don't enjoy giving things to people who squander them and abuse them. i don't understand how that could be construed as acceptable to anyone who has feelings.

gift giving and sending "snail mail" is one of my all time favorite joys in life. there is NOTHING i enjoy more than creating something for another person that is unique and just for them. it's one of a kind and no one else has in that precious box what i've placed in there! how awesome is that? i spend quite a bit on the contents and also the postage. i send homemade, hand decorated cards with painstaking artwork on them. i send cards with pictures hand painted by my own hand.

and for someone to not even bother a quick "yo, got the stuff! awesome! thx" is insulting to the highest of degrees. it's basically smacking me in the face, hard and stinging, more than once. it's saying "hey, i'm greedy and i don't care about manners! it's about the gift, man. it's about the feelings."

bullshit. you need to say THANK YOU when you get a gift. period. you don't need to write me a damn poem, sonnet or solilliquoy about it though. a plain Thanks! is good enough. hell, even THX! in passing is great.

i give plenty of gifts that are never get acknowledged. but i'll only fall for that utter tripe and bullshit once. i've never regretted a single gift given but i don't enjoy being slapped by someone in a rude manner more than once.

not that you could understand such a simple concept, however, since you're above all that, right? i mean...you would never, ever, ever get pissed off at say...your mom never saying thank you for the lovely hand knitted scarf you spent a week making? with hand picked soft, pretty wool that costs $10 a skein and takes 3 skeins to make properly, right?

you wouldn't be mad or hurt at all by that. cause you know, it's YOUR thought that counts. it's the only one that counts, right?

btw, this is an example. my mother would never dream of a horror. plus, my mom hated crap around her neck. *LOL*

so you think about that the next time you give a gift and they never bother to acknowledge your kindness, thoughtfulness and love in any way, shape or form. i wonder how long you'll keep giving those gifts away at the expense of your own self-esteem and joy and pride?

well, please, continue to do so. people like me don't stand for that crap in life. i also don't let people cut in front of me in line, either!!!!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby Silke » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:43 am

a "thank you" can be faked, the look in ones eyes the first seconds never is.
I´ve never said I didn´t want aknowledgement; I said I didn´t want a thank you.

Nathaniel showed up because I said "look at that statement! lol! how far out of reality isn´t that!" I had a laugh as you have had some laughs about what I´ve written. She never said I was nice (nathie is the first to call me evil and many other unflattering things). She said I wasn´t loud.
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Postby meadow » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:51 am

Silke: uh huh...well you continue on your little road of delusion then. be my guest. you have fun now!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby Silke » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:08 am

thank you!
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Postby Nathaniel » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:39 am

Silke: You are evil.

Meadow: I can understand some of it, yeah. Thanks for clarifying what you meant.
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