Have good manners gone COMPLETELY out of style???

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Have good manners gone COMPLETELY out of style???

Postby brandtrn » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:34 am

Somehow, I need to learn WHICH of my friends and acquaintances managed to learn decent manners when they were children, and which ones did not...in this way, I can perhaps in future avoid wasting my efforts to please AND my hard-earned $$$ on people who really aren't worth the bother.

A couple of cases in point: A few months ago, one of my old acquaintances got married. With my work schedule being what it is (I'm a nurse on the "weekend package," and as such, only get four weekends off a year, which I'd like to spend on important events in MY life), I wasn't able to attend the wedding. I did, however, send a gift...which to this day has never even been acknowledged! And recently, I sent a gift certificate to one of my online friends for her birthday -- and THAT has also been unacknowledged. Don't get me wrong, folks...I'm not a member of that old-fashioned school that insists upon receiving a formal, written note of thanks every single time I open up my wallet to send a gift, but it would seem to me that the very LEAST the recipients could do would be to invest a few minutes in a phone call or to write an e-mail and acknowledge that he/she received the gift and appreciated my efforts. I'm especially irked in the case of the wedding gift...the woman obviously knows where I live, because she sent me a damned wedding invitation, after all! Now that she's got the goods, however, it's apparently OK to forget about me completely -- at least until she gets pregnant, and it's time to send out invitations for her baby shower. Apparently, with few exceptions, the human race has degenerated into nothing but pack of self-absorbed boors, and once again, I feel justified in my cynicism toward my fellow human beings...
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Postby Yogi » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:24 am

I know what you mean.

I feel guilty when I don't acknowledge receiving as little as a plain old e-mail. The problem with friendships, or any other close relationship, is that you tend to take each other for granted after a while. That's no excuse for bad manners, but a few inconsiderate people don't represent all of humanity.
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Postby meadow » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:28 pm

don't even make me go there, Cindy!!! GRRRRR!!!

guess what i do now? i don't send a damn gift. i don't send a damn card. in fact, i RSVP and tell them NO not attending!

i'm so grateful when i receive any gift, pressie, card, or any mail in general. i tend to SQUEE!, jump up and down and make an ass of myself. i make sure to profusely thank that person for thinking of me.

when someone gives a gift or even a card...i know the amount of thought they put into it. because i know i do that for the gifts i send.

i only let someone be ungrateful to me once. after that, i refuse to play the game and give any more gifts. i guess being unmarried and without children i avoid a lot of gift-giving in general. thank Goddess!!!

i'm bitchy enough though to point it out in a roundabout but still obvious way. i hate those bitches that they are better than having to say thank you or send a proper thank you note. which i do myself!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby solana » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:16 pm

hmmm

it is nice to be thanked, I agree....

however.....

When I give a gift... thats that. I gift those who I choose to gift, and expect nothing
in return. If I get a thank you, I appreciate it, and feel good..
but I just don't give something to get something... even if it is just a thanks..
and I forget about it pretty much immediately....
.fcv/v"
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Postby meadow » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:11 am

i'm sorry but are you kidding me?? seriously? you don't think that it's polite to at least bother to remember to thank the person for the gift? and you don't expect one?

i've seen it all. i give gifts from the heart but i do like knowing my gift was appreciated. i don't enjoy spending time with people who don't appreciate me or use me.

it must be nice to live in a world where a simple thank you is too much effort regarding a gift. i hope i never live in a world like that! no offense but that's a little too far on the touchy-feely scale for me. it's bordering on the ridiculous.

expecting a thank you isn't selfish. it's POLITE. and it's not a bad thing to expect someone to realize that you put an effort into a gift and should be properly considered. especially when a FORMAL invitation is issued like a wedding, christening, or shower.

when people let people get away with no thank you...it just shows them that it's okay for them to continue to get away with being rude. and that's why people do that shit now. cause someone doesn't want to ruffle a feather or two in trying to do the right thing. and letting them know they are being rude by not responding to a gift!!!!!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby Silke » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:45 pm

I don´t expect a thankyou either. It is not the reason why I by a gift.

as to beeing polite... I mean, sometimes that "polite" means asking if you are an idiot.

my sister: (calling for this sole purpose): we are going to the same birthdayparty, I wondered if you wanted a ride?
our friend: I can ride with you? are you sure?
my sister: what a stupid question. I called just to ask, didn´t I?

I mean, do people think we call just to say "no, I don´t bother. I just called to ask you and then turn you down." This is just one example, there are more.

me: do you want a soda?
friend: I don´t have money right now
me: no worries. I´ll pay for it.
firend: are you sure?

.... one day I will prove I am as evil as "politeness" wants it and I will say "no, I just wanted to give you false hope!" AARRRGGGGGHHH!!!!!!!


by the way brand... over here that "thank you for attending my wedding and thank you for your gift" just might take years to get there...
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Postby solana » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:40 pm

"no, I just wanted to give you false hope!" AARRRGGGGGHHH!!!!!!
LOLOL silke....




See meadow... ? It isn't just me... different strokes I guess.....like I said, its nice to be thanked..but it isn't on my list
of things I need... Most people are grateful, but I get joy from giving the gift. Sorry, but thats just true...






Now I always send a thank you... but that is my choice... I enjoy thanking people who do things for me.. but
I don't think I feel compelled to.. I want to....
.fcv/v"
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Postby meadow » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:10 am

okay, you both are choosing to completely avoid and miss the point. gotcha! not that i expected any less but a girl can hope!

i don't ever give a gift demanding a thank you. but i don't ever give a gift TWICE when that happens. obviously both of you feel that is acceptable behavior for a formal invitation gift. i don't. you can get me the first time but never the second. i'm not going to not only waste my hard earned money but my time and effort on someone who won't appreciate it. i prefer to spend my effort, time, money and love on people who care enough to bother to say Thank You to me. so far it's worked out for me.

silke: maybe if you just expressed yourself you wouldn't get those rhetorical questions? maybe if you chose to...oh...i don't know...state something with a decision and be firm and out there? but that wouldn't be polite? right? expressing yourself with any kind of opinion isn't polite, correct? that's the pattern i see with you. but you know...what do i know. i'm just a bitch who is loud and opinionated. and yet...hmm...i don't tend to get those rhetorical questions from people. funny that!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby Silke » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:51 pm

me? not opinionated, expressing myself, stating firm decisions? meadow dear, just because I´m not loud or have the same valiues as you doesn´t mean I am any of that. Those rhetorical questions is about them beeing polite; it´s a middle-of-norway thing and has nothing to do with me not stating my opinions firm enugh. Just out of curiosity; where on this forum do I not state my opinions? I know that sometimes I´m fooling around because I´m bored?

I have an opinion I state it. I´m not beond realising some of my opinions has been stated on wrong grounds (only a fool thinks himself right all the time) but I´m firm and stand my ground nontheless. Just because I´m not out there doesn´t mean no one respects my opinions.
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Postby Nathaniel » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:07 pm

meadow wrote:
silke: maybe if you just expressed yourself you wouldn't get those rhetorical questions? maybe if you chose to...oh...i don't know...state something with a decision and be firm and out there? but that wouldn't be polite? right? expressing yourself with any kind of opinion isn't polite, correct? that's the pattern i see with you. but you know...what do i know. i'm just a bitch who is loud and opinionated. and yet...hmm...i don't tend to get those rhetorical questions from people. funny that!


Pardon me for butting in on this discussion....

Silke is a personal friend of mine and, well....

She is opinionated, but not loud, that's true. She gets her message across, and, as she says, it is a "middle-of-Norway" thing. We always ask "are you sure".

I don't expect thank you's either. They aren't as satisfying as watching the happiness in the reciever's eyes. That's what makes me happy when I give gifts. I also like just giving gifts to give gifts because... Well, it's just in my nature, I guess. And I don't need a thank you to know that they like it.

I, myself, always say thank you, though that's just the way I was raised. However, I think that when you stop giving gifts to people just because they don't say thank you, you overreact. The thank you isn't the point. The GIFT is the point, and the whole pleasure of GIVING. Obviously, you haven't understood that yet.
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Postby Makinamess » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:13 pm

If I buy or give a gift to someone, it is because I want to do just that - NOT because I want a thank you from them. As far as I am concerned, as soon as that *gift* is given, it is theirs and nothing more to do with me. Expecting something back is so alien to me, I am having trouble with the concept. Why on earth give the item in the first place if it was only to receive something back in return - hardly a gift then ? Should these *gifts* be called *barter* instead ??
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Postby meadow » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:41 pm

Nathaniel: and why do you feel the need to come and jump to your friend's defense? i find that very interesting. and says more about her than you can imagine that someone feels they must defend poor, little Silke. how about you let her fight her own battles? if she chooses to not fight, that's her problem. and it's definitely something noticable!

Silke: i see you back down all the time. and i find it hilarious how you never really seem to stand up for something. you express an opinion but you never fight for it. and you tend to not really come out and SAY it but i notice you tend to sort of, kind of, not really ever just come and spit it out. Norway or not...it's still kinda backing down. but i don't know much about your culture and honestly from what i've seen...no real desire to!



and as for the gift giving...sorry but i feel that if someone can't be bothered to thank someone for a gift, they don't deserve it. period. i make sure to go out of my way to show my appreciation for everything i'm given. my gratitude knows no bounds when i receive a gift. i was raised CORRECTLY by my momma. and if people in their adulthood are so fucking selfish and stupid to not bother to pay attention to a simple, easy, fast thing as a "hey, thanks!" then you know what? they've got bigger problems than me not choosing to waste my very hard earned cash on them. i'll stick to the friends who hold values and morals, THANKS. i prefer spending my effort on people who know how to appreciate the hard work put into a nice, thoughtful gift.

so you can all sit in your little sanctimonious gift giving lives. i hope you spend a lot of money you can't afford and give a lot of gifts that are relegated to closets, basements, attics and spare bedrooms then! not too mention knowing how much effort you put into something that the person couldn't take THIRTY SECONDS TO SAY THANK YOU FOR!!!! AHAHAHAAHAHAAA!!! rock on, then! rock on!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby solana » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:00 am

Nathaniel: and why do you feel the need to come and jump to your friend's defense? i find that very interesting. and says more about her than you can imagine that someone feels they must defend poor, little Silk


For heavens sake meadow.. you would come to the defense of a friend too..I know I would..
not because they NEED it, but because they are a friend...

I honestly don/t know why this topic became so irritating to you... everyone has different beliefs...
you are more than entitled to want a thank you.
I am entitled to not feel the need for one...


As for gifts? I imagine that some of mone have languished on shelves.. especially the leather bound Kiplings that I give to new mom's with
their baby gifts.. my children loved Kipling. OTherwise? They get boring undershirts, socks and maybe a sweatshirt in much larger sizes lik18 months or 2 ..
so when the first blush of gifting wears off and the baby grows... there is a bit of something practical there..

Otherwise? One of my favorite gifts is gift certificates for the vet ( good for newlyweds if they have pets... or a young family who
has not a lot of extra income) Gift cards for pizza delivery or groceries or gas for them too...


I rely on gift cards a lot, as then.. people can choose what the need or want...

Overstock.com, Linens and Things etc...or Target if that is more practical.....

Thank you for the lovely wish that I


spend a lot of money you can't afford and give a lot of gifts that are relegated to closets, basements, attics and spare bedrooms then!


but since I am careful with what gift card that I buy, basing it on need or habit of the individual... or gift that I give... that may not be the case...

For you meadow? I hope that you get a card for every gift that you give so that you do not get so angry about having given....
and that the gifts that you do give are treasured and enjoyed for years to come. [/quote]
.fcv/v"
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Postby meadow » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:39 am

it irritates me just how much people refuse to see the reality of life in front of them and continue on a path that is really just spinning their wheels.

i don't need to defend my friends because they are quite capable of defending themselves. and i certainly don't roll up on someone i don't know and try to TELL them how to behave. ain't my style and never has been. i pipe in if i'm a frequent member of a site and it's well known that person is my friend and i happen to agree with them. i don't just pop out of nowhere after no showing for months to try to start a snot fest.

i'll continue to only give gifts to people who deserve them. most of the people i choose to have in my life are well aware of the ability to say and show gratitude so it's not a problem. i don't send gifts to people i don't speak to on a regular basis nor people who've shown themselves to be rude ass bitches in the past. i save a lot of effort and money that way. money i can better spend on my FRIENDS..you know those people who appreciate an effort.
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby solana » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:50 pm

consider just for a minute meadow.. that you are not always right about what is right for other people...
no one here is arguing with you... you should do as you believe is right for you..
but you seem to want everyone to agree that of course you are fight..

we make our choices and follow our own paths meadow... no need to lash out if you don't agree..
to what end is that anyway?

I have twice the life experience that you do.. but I certainly do not begin to believe that I am right about everything...
far from it.. NO matter how much I disagree with someone, I at least consider what they are saying.. and many times I have learned from
that...valuable lessons... if we refuse to listen, we miss much

but when you figure out how to live and let live, you will have much more peace of mind.. i promise...
.fcv/v"
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Postby meadow » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:39 pm

remind me again where i stated that what's right for me is right for you?

yep, you won't find it. i'm not lashing out but it pisses me off when people try to act like they are more spiritual or better than me cause you know...they've let go of all the material aspects right? :roll: and that's not what it's about.

it's about people being totally fucking rude in the face of being given a well thought out gift for a formal occasion. not saying thank you? not cool and NOT RIGHT. you might be bothered by it, BUT I AM and i'll continue to express that opinion. you ain't gotta like it.

but what i most need from you? i don't need any advice on how to conduct my life or feelings. i'm well aware of what i need in life to get to the place i want. and it's not by "letting go" and "having piece of mind" or some other bullshit. that shit doesn't exist in the real world out there. sorry, i choose to fight for what i think is right. and for me that is that someone ought to give a damn Thank You, in writing, for a formally given gift. period.

reading about the Dalai Lama ain't gonna change that, okay?

i consider everyone's view when i read posts here. if i don't agree, i don't agree. i'm not a passive person and i won't start now. i am not the kind of person who lets things just roll off their back or tries to keep the peace. not my style. and that's okay. there isn't one person on this forum that should EVER have to agree with me. i could care less if they do or don't. i don't need validation for my opinions and what i know to be true. i know it's true, that's all i need to know!

sometimes you gotta rock the boat so others can learn to swim!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby solana » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:10 pm

if i don't agree, i don't agree.
.fcv/v"
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Postby legend » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:42 pm

this might come across anti american and get me abuse .
but here i go anyway.
i think americans have the least manners.
apart from in the service industry where people are overly well manneerd .
the sickly sweet "missing you already " rings in your ears till you feel nauseaus.
sorry but most americans appear too wrapped up in their own little lives to even be polite to each other never mind well mannered .
this isnt only an american thing btw.
but seeing as there are a few americans asking about manners i thought my answer to be relevant.

and in no way is it a slight at america just an observation, in social behaviour. :biggrin:
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Postby solana » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:51 am

legend.. i think you may be right

I noticed something the other day ..
on wednesday when Harry Potter came out here..

I watched Daniel on Larry King.. and later.... the girl..
( sorry can't recall her name :(
later on letterman...
I was so impressed by how polite they are, and they are teenagers..


kids in the us are taught that the world revolves around them
if something goes wrong in their world
someone else is blamed...
and I agree that for the most part, they are not taught manners...often
because their parents don't have any...


Poor Daniel was trying to answer questions and kept being bulldozed over by some
ditzy reporter ... it was painful to watch
.fcv/v"
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Postby Silke » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:19 pm

Sorry for not answering sooner, I was out of town...

Meadow dear: wether or not my friends can defend themselves are not in question at all! They can, and they do, but that doesn´t mean I won´t be there for them, even if they don´t need me. It is called caring, try it sometime.


What fight do you want from me, meadow? I state my opinions, I have no need to fight for them. Most here I discuss anyhow, and so I consider what people say and answer to that, either stating my meaning in a diffrent way to get through or by realizing I am far off. I do not own the truth, no one does. Not even you. I do not curse people for dissagreeing with me, and I do not take dissagreement as a sign that people think they are better than me. None here on this board think so, as far as I understand matters. None think they are better than you either, even if they think it is special to have kids (they never said that made you special to have kids, better than everyone else. That was allways your inerprettion) as none there thinks less of you for demanding a thankyou! I expect people to respect me for my meanings, thoughts and feelings. I´m even naive enugh to belive there is noone even thinking about behaving otherwise, but you rock my boat.

I don´t do personal attacks in public chats (a poke every now and then, mabye, but not attacks). Why? it has nothing to do with beeing weak, wavering or not fighting for my statements. It is about respect for everyone on this forum. If you are going to bash me for these opinions, do it in PM or make a post in your fighting ground.

..but why even bother. Some people have a wall they are afraid of tearing down, afraid even to make a wole in, incase something gets throgh. Mabye the world isn´t as it is painted inside the walls, but what do you do if what is safe and familiar is gone? I tore down mine long ago. Respect my opinions as stated, or don´t. you see, I couldn´t care less; I have nothing I need to defend the way you do.
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