Poor

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Poor

Postby Silke » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:17 pm

I´ve seen the "breeding as a career" topic loose abit focus, and so I want to start a new topic off of van and medows discussion about poor, poor children-popping, and poor economics. If anyone want, I am sure it is arrangeble to copy the posts in question over here so everyone knows what has been said before. Just ask and I´ll get it done. Anyway, for now I will just continiue the topic and pretend everyone gets the context.

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...as to that poor families pop out children to have them care for the parents: yes. The child will be a burden for only so many years, after that it is additional income, either through marrige or work. Poor countries have something many rich countries lack: consideration of eachother and a will to help. Anyone poor in America, NZ or any rich country can never say they know what it is to be poor compaired to people from Tailand, latvia and several more of those countries. Ofcourse neither the bills, taxes or income can be compaired easily.

just to get the picture though: in latvia a camera costs 200 lat. Nothing one needs, but it is an example of how easy it is to get things you don´t need. In norway it cost 4000 kroners. Even if you convert it is more expencive in norway, talking about money cost. Talking about income, an average income in latvia is 300 lat. In norway the lowest you can get off a fulltime job is 10 000 kroners, and that makes you poor! in latvia the "cheap" camera is a third of the monthly income of an average family, in norway it is not even half of a poor one, though more "expencive". Who is to say who is poor?
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Postby meadow » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:20 pm

as someone who, in spite of van's OPINIONS, is actually poor that comparing me to someone say in Uganda is an unfair comparison.

their quality of life is totally different than the life of a person here. yes, i realize that even though i'm poor here i'm still better off than about 90% of the African continent. i'm not so selfish as to realize that my life is still decent.

but i am POOR.

it's nothing to be ashamed of. i work hard and yet this country doesn't make sure that my wages are fair and comparable to where i live. i've gone without many basic necessities many times and for YEARS.

most Third World countries would consider a car a luxury. me too. most consider television a luxury. guess what? ME TOO. internet? yep, lump that in.

now, i understand i ain't out hoeing in a field for 16 hours trying to raise enough food to feed myself. but making $200 a week isn't very much different for me. yes, $200 a week in any Third World country would get me not only a nice little house but a maid, a cook and if i had children, a nanny. i'd probably be able to afford a car and hell even a driver! i could probably buy whatever i needed at market and own a television, radio and probably some sort of alarm system for that home.

well, guess what? i don't live in the fucking Third World. i live in the United States. i'm not spoiled. i'm not living off the fat of the land here, people. i suffer, i work hard and i go without things that every single person on this forum probably takes for granted every single damn day. i live a simple life because i have no choice, i can't afford a different one! i can't even afford health care! education! i can't even afford to now live on my own. so here i am at my father's house. and believe me, it's his house. i'm just taking up a little space.

i think it's shitty that people die every single day in my own country from HUNGER. how is this possible?!!?!? i'll tell you: stupidity. people keep having that sense of personal entitlement and "MINE MINE MINE!"

and no matter how much you pine for them olden days...people were just as mean, hateful, selfish and stupid back then. they just hadn't invented smart enough technology to broadcast it to the rest of us!!!!!!!

people feel it's their God given right to keep having children. i don't feel that way. i feel that if more poverty stricken countries had access to sexual health education [and i don't have a clue how that could happen. wouldn't even know where to start, honestly. sigh.] then so many children wouldn't be born only to die of hunger. or lack of nutritious food. or working 16 hours a day in the hot sun in the field. i don't know how to stop it but i know why it's there. it's a lack of education and a lack of realizing that a woman's sole purpose in life IS NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN.

it's not the most important thing a woman can do. it's not the hardest job nor the most rewarding. i don't have kids and i never have wanted them. i know plenty who have kids that i love them dearly. i, sadly, know even more that should have never been allowed to be near the opposite sex let alone reproduce.

but being poor in this country is a hardship. i've never, ever considered my poverty on any level coming close to the Third World. i'm not that fucking blind nor stupid. but in most developed, rich countries i'm very, very poor. i own nothing but some clothes, books, cds, and a 10 year old television. and some furniture that i've had for about 8 years. no car, no credit cards, no money in the bank. i've got literally nothing in comparison to the ridiculous lives some Americans live.

but i know that my country has poor people. there are more of us than them. and there are way more poor people working hard and gettin' nowhere than are.
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby van » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:47 pm

Kia ora Silke

My income is in the lower 30% in NZ, so certainly not rich
My youngest son by comparison earns 4-5 times as much and his wife 3-4 times as much
Does this make them rich? Not by any stretch of the imagination, merely "middle class"
However after a lifetime of work, I have a freehold home, some money in the bank and can afford some luxuries at times
It has not been easy, yet when an opportunity presented itself I grasped it with both hands
We live frugally, seldom buy new, and then only if it is needed not because we "want"
With many in the developed world, therein lies the crux of "poor"
Time and again we hear and see stories of those crying "poor" yet when the TV cameras pan their environment, I note fancy clothes, widescreen TV, SUV parked up the drive, things I certainly don't have, nor desire
My house 30's vintage requires major repairs, yet its value would not go up markedly and the consequence would be that I would then have no money in the bank

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Postby Silke » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:01 am

As I said: neither income nor bills can be compaired good. I consider myself lucky, because the first time I moved away from home, I got everything I needed. Why? because I have not only a big family, but a huge one, and most everyone of them has some leftover stuff I could have (either because they got married and the partner had "one of those too" or just because they prioritized me) leaving me with almost nothing to buy for myself which was good, because I didn´t really have the money to buy everything. Does that make me rich? does it make me a poor who takes alms? Or is it just that I have a caring family?

When I grew up we prioritized. Did we want to go away for the summer? well, that means months of saving which means less choice in foods, drinks, and electricbills. I won´t say I have ever been poor, even though by norwegian standards I am. My mother worked between 150-200% to get around the bills, but we never considered ourselves poor. Why? Because we stil had a choice as to what we would use our money. I might however considered us poor if my mother "only" worked 100%, because then we might not have had that choice. But that didn´t happen, and so in my minds eye I am rich. I can afford to talk to you.
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Postby van » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:05 am

Kia ora Silke

Why? because I have not only a big family, but a huge one, and most everyone of them has some leftover stuff I could have (either because they got married and the partner had "one of those too"


Exactly
Perhaps something to consider about the struggle between rich and poor, :"If you can't beat them, outbreed them"
Then the police state with it's rich backing will be renamed "Pest Control", something that in many countries it appears to have already become

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Postby Silke » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:09 pm

are you saying "if we can´t beat the rich; outbreed them" ? or was that aimed at the poor...
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Postby van » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:05 pm

Kia ora Silke

It would seem that the rich while happily exploiting the poor, also fear them and thus want to keep their numbers under some control
If they (the poor) keep on breeding like flies, they represent a danger
Of course the rich, having the financial wherewithall, are able to flee other nations

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Postby meadow » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:01 am

i love when my responses are deleted. it's hilarious.

i'm glad there are a lot of ignorant people out there doing exactly what you think is right, van. it's good to know that people are popping out kids faster than the world can properly care for them! good on you!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby pilvikki » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:20 am

you missed the point.
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Postby meadow » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:55 pm

no, i didn't miss the point. THEY missed the point which isn't really all that surprising to me.

i rarely miss the point. sometimes i don't like the point and still wish to make my point. but i rarely actually miss it. i'm a little sharper than that.

i don't think even Van knows what his point is ultimately. i mean, apart from slammin' us Americans every oblique chance he can take!
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby pilvikki » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:51 pm

yawn...
Somebody's boring me. I think it's me.

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Postby meadow » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:34 pm

and right back atcha! :sleep:
"i hope you flip your bike over and knock your two front teeth out, you selfish son of a bitch!" ~Wedding Crashers
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Postby Silke » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:23 pm

there is much more to it than what you see, meadow... at least much more than what you see based of your replies. But I know you. Explaining it wouldn´t help at all; you still see what you want to. As you said: you rearly miss the point!

I´m not sure I understand you though, van. if t he poor breed like flies, I can´t see how they represent a danger. While there is more income there is also more mouths to feed: an evil sircle imposible to break before it is finaced. If they breed so it means more workes, more about the few jobs which result in lower wages in the long run. That is why productions are moved to poor countries; they can´t afford fighting for a good pay.
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