Up, up and Awaaaay!!!!!!!

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Up, up and Awaaaay!!!!!!!

Postby van » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:22 pm

Kia ora

In the seventies there was a lot of hoopla about space exploration and travelling to other planets in the Solar System
This seems to have mostly grown to a crawl or even a halt

Given the nature of man, his limited knowledge and his various dependencies, I cannot imagine him venturing beyond the confines of the Solar System
Even the relatively short distance to the Moon is perilous and a base there will be akin to the early Antartic explorers, often isolated for long periods of time and no guarantees of a safe return

Your thoughts?

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Postby mdkilmer » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:49 pm

This was one thing that I really admired President Kennedy for. It's too bad that our idiot lawmakers decided to cut funding to NASA and give the money to sleazy Welfare bottom-feeders-- creating, of course, more Welfare recipients. You get what you pay for, and we pay for parasites.

The space program is the only US gov't program that ever paid for itself. Everyone points at the billion-dollar cost of each Moon mission, but they don't seem to realize all the benefits that we got from them. Advances in electronics, metallurgy, fuels, aviation, communications, computers, miniaturization, etc.-- all benefited greatly from the "worthless" space program's research and testing. Wear a digital watch? Timex developed them under a NASA grant. Use a home computer that doesn't take up an entire large room? NASA developed "desktop"-sized computers. Use a cell phone? Ever watched a videotape? Used a camcorder? Driven a car? Refueled an engine? Eaten a decent-tasting MRE? On and on and on-- All these industries and more benefited partially or completely from applied and "pure" research funded by NASA.

One estimate that I saw said that over 90% of all technical jobs in America are using some spin-off of something that NASA developed. Look around your house-- barring light bulbs, almost everything electrical around you has some relationship to NASA. For one example-- NASA developed the microchip. That means that anything that uses a microchip owes its existence to a NASA-funded program.

Those billion-dollar missions were the best money that any government ever spent.
*********************************

Now to directly answer your posed question:
I certainly hope that we soon wake up and start using our brains-- and our money-- to start more major space research.

Yes, the Moon trips are/would be dangerous. However, that's mainly because we've sat on our collective thumbs for 40 years. Moon travel should now be commonplace. And building on the Moon is like building docks and shipyards on the edge of the ocean-- it's a necessary stepping-stone to sailing off on new voyages of exploration. One of Saturn's moons seems to be made entirely of methane and hydrocarbons. It's estimated that there's enough energy contained on that moon to power all of Earth's needs for 100,000 years.

BTW, we have the ability to send out a starship. It's called the Daedalus. It can be powered by tossingnuclear weapons out the back and exploding them-- and putt-putt-putting our way to another solar system. A great use for all those old atomic bombs laying around. It's crude, yes-- but it's a start.

My thoughts? I hearby volunteer to go on a Moon mission. Or a Mars mission. Or a mission out of our little back yard and into the greatness of the rest of the universe.

Carl Sagan said it: "We have lingered long enough on the shores of the Cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars". Amen, brother Carl. I'm ready to go.
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Postby van » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:19 am

Kia ora Doc

BTW, we have the ability to send out a starship. It's called the Daedalus. It can be powered by tossingnuclear weapons out the back and exploding them-- and putt-putt-putting our way to another solar system. A great use for all those old atomic bombs laying around. It's crude, yes-- but it's a start.


Somehow that concept does not make sense, primarily due to its "uncontrolled" method
Ion engines will do the job allowing up to luminal speed, but I believe there are some constraints there

I did mention limited knowledge and dependability, ie you can't stop to refuel, repair and restock on food
The faster you go, the more reliance on computers, and should one of those pack a sad "heap big trouble", besides if an obstacle is detected, no brakes!

Should you elect to land on a planet, you have to get off again, and the further you travel the more stores required, the less able to communicate with the home planet

I too would be more then happy to volunteer,trip of a life time, however I would not expect to come back

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Postby meadow » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:54 am

it really is the end of the world....i agree again with Marv! holy PITA chips! :wink:

i wish they would stop cutting the funding for NASA. when i was a kid the idea of space exploration was a dream that was felt to be reachable. you could be an ASTRONAUT!!! how great would that job have been? too much math for me but hey..whatever.

now my nephew is 7 years old. he has no clue or idea of the possibility of life in space. he just doesn't have that sense of wonder about looking up at the sky and thinking "hey...i could be up THERE one day!" i don't know any kids that are under the age of 14 [except my NSM's oldest son] that have any more than a passing interest in space or space exploration! how sad is that?

i guess since i grew up in the shadow of the moon landing of 1969, it was so exciting. too bad we don't bother to encourage that feeling in younger kids now.
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Postby van » Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:02 am

Kia ora Meadow

Space is an alien environment for the human body,and the attempts so far are little more then child's play
Even the probes launched deep into the Solar system have succeeded only due to our knowledge of gravitation, and utilising that with little regard for returning home safely
I seriously doubt man will ever be able to go beyond the Solar system, unless there is a breakthrough in our knowledge of physics
Even then I seriously doubt that man will have the nous to plan a journey taking yrs and safely arrive at their destination
I maybe wrong (been wrong once or twice before :lol: )

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Postby AJRC_CS » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:35 am

The International Space Station has been a great success so far, even though it's computer system did crash last week. But it's said that the ISS will eventually be used as a launching pad into the stars, with no launch from Earth it will save vast amounts of fuel.

Space hasn't gone away, it's just not the big deal it was when i was young. $447 billion spent so far in Iraq, and for what? Surely if we took some of that funding away from the warmongers and gave it back to NASA, we'd be a lot further along with space exploration.

I think the one thing people haven't tried is a truly international space agency. Having all nations, not just one, involved in the exploration of space is surely a more viable alternative financially than having one nation trying to fund everything. If the European Space Agency and NASA could get together on a permanent basis, then finance wouldn't be so much of a burden. Even Japan and India both have budding space agencies and would probably welcome a joint venture out into space.

In my life time, even my son's, i too can't see us leaving the solar system. Maybe Mars could be possible for my son's generation. But i would never say never, man thought it impossible to leave the ground never mind the planet, but it took pioneers, those men who had the vision to take a dream and make it reality. That's all it will take to start up the space programme to get out to the planets, and not just sit back on Earth and watch while morons destroy it.
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Postby ohlia » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:28 am

Maybe space Aliens and UFOs might appear and transport man beyond the solar system. :biggrin:
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Postby Bedford » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:58 am

ohlia wrote:Maybe space Aliens and UFOs might appear and transport man beyond the solar system. :biggrin:


I'm rooting that it will be robots that turn into vehicles and other things that get us there. :biggrin:
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Postby pilvikki » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:40 pm

there is so much more than electronics that came out of the space programs, even simple stuff like velcro. also, since thousands were working for said programs, thousands paid taxes.

personally i'd like us to clean up our presnt nest, before starting to foul up a new one, but as it is, i see no one being being in immediate danger of that happening.
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Postby van » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:11 pm

Kia ora Andy

But it's said that the ISS will eventually be used as a launching pad into the stars, with no launch from Earth it will save vast amounts of


How will people get to the ISS? How will supplies, equipment, to say nothing of fuel get there?
Still has to be sent from Earth

Man needs gravity for his system to work, I am surprised he has done so well for extended periods of time, yet how will he cope on much longer journeys?

That's all it will take to start up the space programme to get out to the planets, and not just sit back on Earth and watch while morons destroy it.


Personally I think that we are at the "carrier pigeon" stage regarding knowledge and technology, and given the unstable nature of mankind do not think that any real progress in space exploration lies in the near future
There is not an infinite supply of raw materials, and the more that is used, the less will be available for the construction of space vehicles

Lia

Maybe space Aliens and UFOs might appear and transport man beyond the solar system. Mr. Green


Should they exist and be foolish enuf to contact us, that possibility exists, yet given the documented antics of UFO's, will the frail human body be able to survive?

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Postby pilvikki » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:35 pm

But it's said that the ISS will eventually be used as a launching pad into the stars, with no launch from Earth it will save vast amounts of fuel.


i was wondering that myself, then decided i've missed something... [solar power? :biggrin: ] i understand absolutely nothing about basic physics.

as for the gravity, does not each body in space carry around its own, just not the polarity earth has with it's magnetic field?
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Postby solana » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:05 am

I guess I disagree with most..

I think we should put our money into minding the planet that we have..
We are not spending enough to stop pollution...
to stop global warming..
hunger
medical care..

yet, many millions of dollars are being spent to explore space.


We should put our own home in order before we try to go out visiting.
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Postby meadow » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:12 am

i agree to a point, solana.

but i think there is something so magical and promising about space exploration. and like Marv mentioned...so many technological advances were made because of NASA!!! all the things that make life much easier for you, me and the world all because someone wanted to look down from space at Planet Earth.

i think there is more than enough money to fund not only space exploration but feed hungry, fight AIDS and help the planet itself!!!!

i want kids growing up in future generations to have that sense of wonder and excitement about space and all those interesting possibilities! i grew up thinking that living on the Moon was possible in my lifetime! how awesome is that kind of imagination? kids need more of that these days!
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Postby emanresu » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:14 am

Some of the greatest advances humanity has made are often born from one group getting away from another. Since there's nowhere on the planet to run anymore and since exploring space really isn't a trade off with fixing the planet seeing as how any available funds go to military idiocy, why not try for the planets? Large numbers of people leaving would do far more good than large numbers staying and fighting.
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Postby pilvikki » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:47 am

i think there is more than enough money to fund not only space exploration but feed hungry, fight AIDS and help the planet itself!!!!


that's what i figure, too. the money is there, it's the leadership that needs their heads checked for wasting it.
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Postby solana » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:11 pm

the money is there, it's the leadership that needs their heads checked for wasting it


I agree somewhat..
there is a lot of money in private hands...
those who have the most are routinely protected from paying taxes by... oh..
some party or another...

True , much money is being wasted on war..

But We will only know if there is enough to go around if we do it...

mind our planet and the beings on it first..
then once we are in order go into space...
we are doing it wrong

as usual

They are intent of finding another planet to inhabit and ruin once they destroy this one.
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Postby bermbits » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:22 pm

Arthur C. Clarke wrote an essay called "We'll Never Conquer Space" and went on to explain why. It's been many years, but simply time and distance were the "enemy." perhaps someday technology might change that, but not for quite a while.

That said, if enough people could make enough money from more nearby space jaunts or if oil or gold were discovered in our solar system, it might be another story. If we can't live in peace on Earth, what makes one think elsewhere would be any different???
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Postby solana » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:29 pm

exactly....


and the more money they make .. the more money will be in the hands of individuals ..
not governments..

When I was very young, I was interested in space exploration.. but the more time passes..
the more I have learned, and the more I see being done to destroy Gaia .. well.. my opinion changed long ago...

we need to appreciate what we have before we get more
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Postby emanresu » Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:58 pm

It's not the money, it's human nature. If people cared, we'd be well on the way to ecological recovery, but they don't and you can't make them, no matter how hard you try. Selfishness outweighs altruism, there is no golden age of cooperation on the horizon, there is no hope for all nations getting together to do anything, let alone fix up their fouled nest, so you might as well let greed work to its best effect, which in this case is heading for the unknown to find new things to exploit which is the one thing humans do best.
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Postby solana » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:47 pm

emanresu, your words are true and but I can't just accept it. It just should not be that way..


and yes.. I do know that I can't change it... but there is no way I can change how I feel
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