Jehovah's Wittness's

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Postby AL CARTER » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:11 pm

ANOTHER QUESTION THAT WILL NOT BE ANSWERED,

The WTS claims it uses the Bible as it's "supreme authority". Where in the Bible does anyone count their time in preaching on a slip of paper and are assigned record cards of activity, determining this as a "gauge to their spirituality"? Where in the Bible are Pioneers, Auxiliary Pioneers, Bethelites, and Kingdom Halls? Where in the Bible does it say that anyone born after 1935 can not go to heaven, that Christians are required to attend five meetings a week, that men are prohibited from wearing beards, and that after a prophecy fails, if the prophet admits he made a mistake, he is no longer a false prophet (see Deut 18:20-22)? Where does the Bible say that a person must belong to an organization that will start in the late 19th century and be headquartered in Brooklyn, NY, in order to survive Armageddon?

MAYBE YOU CAN JUST TRY TO ANSWER A QUESTION
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Postby van » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:56 am

kia ora andre

my,my, you do get your knickers in an awful twist, don't you?
allow me to point out to you that every "christian" religion has its idiosyncracies
to isolate one , does not do justice to the others
but then again to what extent do you "prove" your "truth"?



"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
- Voltaire

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Postby AL CARTER » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:18 pm

VAN, I'M SORRY YOU ARE STILL SO CONFUSED, THE KEY WORD IN YOUR POST IS "CHRISTIAN" AND YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THE JW ARE NOT "CHRISTIAN"
WHAT PART CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.

HAVE A GOOD DAY,AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU.

DID YOU ANSWER MY LAST QUESTION ?????????????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm
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Postby van » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:52 pm

kia ora andre

a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality b chiefly British : TRUE 2 c : fidelity to an original or to a standard


to whatever you think i refer you to the above definition
hence whatever lurks in your mind is the assumption that your mythology is based on reality
yet there is no proof!
your rhetoric carries as much weight as someone of the twenty first century claiming the existence of alien extraterrestials visiting us from outer space in flying saucers
one may believe in this ,given the evidence presented, yet proof is still wanting
i am certainly not confused, merely awaiting confirmation of that which was written

the second definition is however one that can be ascertained
ie true to an idea
i see many christians around and about me
it is not by their trumpetting their belief, rather the application of "truth" in their everyday lives as espoused by jc
in particular this applies to the "golden rule"

now if after all this you still claim that i am confused, i can only assume that whatever brainwashing you have undergone has indeed been very effective!

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Postby pilvikki » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:13 pm

especially the rinse and extra spin....
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Postby mahtilda » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:16 am

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Postby pilvikki » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:37 am

what a strange man...

and which version of all those versions of the bible then is the one true version? hmmm....

but it is interesting that a person would devote his life to studying the bible without seemingly studying the sources to the writings.
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Postby Yogi » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:43 am

I have found that the amount of effort one puts into studying the Bible is direcltly proportional to their intolerance of alternate philosophies. The idea of there being only one "true" word becomes an obsession for Bible scholars, and it is at that point I have to question their ability to think critically.
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened.
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Postby pilvikki » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:31 pm

or think at all...?

after all, you're supposed to just accept, not think or question.
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Postby van » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:29 pm

kia ora mah

thanks for that link

This comprehensive website offers a Christian defense for just about any assault on the faith.


one would expect that if all they believe is true, there would be no need to defend themselves, ie the light would be too blinding!

dan

"Maximize your annoyance as a Christian babbling $%*&... now with modern computer technology you can exceed the Jahovah Witness door knockers annoyance level by leaps and bounds"


there has to be a message there somewhere!
"you can exceed in annoyance level"
at least jws have the balls to front up in person!!

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Postby van » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:34 pm

kia ora andre

wassup al?
sulking?
hiding?

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Postby pilvikki » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:37 pm

i have a NO SOLICITING - thank you! sign on the door. i just point to it and tell JW, LDS, anyone, that is goes for the lord as well.
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Postby AL CARTER » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:26 am

Anonymous wrote:Jehovah's witnesses, AKA the Watchtower Organization, is a non-Christian cult. Their foundational beliefs contradict the bible, and contradict the historical and traditional beliefs of Christianity.

In order to make their doctrines and beliefs appear biblical, they have written their own version of the Bible, commonly known among Christians as "The Green Phantom" (no relationship to your amazing correspondent). While claiming that their own scholars interpreted their version of the Bible from the original Greek and Hebrew, they admitted under oath in a lawsuit that there was no one on their staff who could read or translate either language.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are false prophets according to the Biblical measurement. They have repeatedly, over the past century, stated



categorically that certain events were going to occur on specific dates, including the return to the earth of Jesus Christ in 1917. When it didn't happen, they claimed he did return, but secretly, and was hidden away, directing their organization in private.

According to the Bible, if anyone claims to prophecy in God's name, and the prophecy doesn't come true, they are to be considered false prophets and disregarded. The Watchtower organization claims to be God's representative on earth, telling people what God tells them to say. They claim to speak in God's behalf. If they did, surely their prophecies would come true. None of them have, and entire books have been written, describing the prophecies, quoting them, providing the sources of them, and showing their lack of fulfillment.

Among the many unscriptural doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses is their teaching that only 144,000 people will go to heaven, and that no one in their organization knows who those people are, so everyone has to do certain "works" hoping that if they do enough, they will be among the chosen. People are therefore motivated by the desire to be considered "good enough", based on their "works", to go to heaven.

The Bible teaches that anyone can know whether they are going to heaven or not: The Gospel of John ends with the statement that it was written so believers can "know" that they have eternal life.

The Bible also teaches that no one will go to heaven on the basis of their personal goodness or deeds (good works).

The Jehovah's witness organization is a non-Christian cult that is leading many, many people on a path directly in contradiction to Christian Theology. It is a dangerous organization led by a small group of people who exercise strict control over the membership.


I think this post tells it all, stay away from them they are a cult like this person said,they are NOT Christian
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Postby AL CARTER » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:30 am

van wrote:kia ora andre



VAN I CAN TELL YOU HAVE A HARD TIME TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THINGS


au contraire!
i am more than capable of comprehension, however unlike you, i think!
there are few things that i "believe" and have "faith" in
those that meet the criteria of proof ie the earth is round (more or less) and if i lose my balance i will fall due to gravity
on the otherhand when i see a "religion" that professes itself to be the truth, contaminated by "pagan" philosophy i seriously doubt the veracity of its proponents

The Bible tells us there is a time for peace and a time for war

the jews of whom jc was one did not believe it, so how is the adoption of a doctrine of egyptian and sumerian dogma a valid component of his gospel?
furthermore the teaching of jc was one of peace, as illustrated by the earlier followers of his
yet the most bloodthirsty pages of our history are soaked in the blood of those who were forcibly made to accept the doctrine of "truth"

"by their fruits you will know them"

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THE BIBLE TELLS THERE IS A TIME FOR PEACE AND A TIME FOR WAR
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Postby AL CARTER » Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:09 pm

van wrote:kia ora

i used to be one! :twisted:
i have nothing against them, despite of having been thrown out!
i learned alot about the bible, i learned the art of public speaking, preparing speeches etc
to my mind, they take the christian message far more seriously than many other religions that profess to be christian
their bible studies are second to none, and in many respects this is what attracts the ire of many other denominations
they have blown the "hell and damnation" rhetoric to pieces and liberated people from that particular lie
they do not support war, believing in the command that "love conquers all"
some of their other beliefs such as refusal to accept or give blood are based on sound scriptural passages, and even tho i am not a witness or christian, i still adhere to that
not on religious grounds, but rather on medical grounds

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shalom
bill




Reference Bible Leviticus 3:17 ***
17 "'It is a statute to time indefinite for YOUR generations, in all YOUR dwelling places: YOU must not eat any fat or any blood at all.'"

[Emphasis Added]
*** New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, Numbers 23:23, 24 ***
[Balaam's 2nd prophecy]

23 For there is no unlucky spell
against Jacob,
Nor any divination against
Israel.
At this time it may be said re-
specting Jacob and Israel,
'What has God worked out!'
24 Behold, a people will get up like
a lion,
And like the lion it will lift
itself up.
It will not lie down until it may
eat prey,
And the blood of slain ones it
will drink."
AL CARTER
 

Postby Silke » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:26 am

Al...

I just wonder... Christianity is a belif, faith or religion, right? I want to clerify some words before I move on...

Belif= you think something is right
Faith= You hope something is right
Doupt/disbelif = you think something is not right
Despair= you think all hope is lost
Knowledge= you know something is right or wrong

Religions are all founded on belif and faith, meaning no one knows. Several theries say that if anyone knew God to exist, the faith would be gone because you would know, not think, and so the fundemential belif and faith would disapair. This of course would ruin Gods power and destoy the universe, seeing how he made it. This is only a theory and I do not say I belive in it.

However, I do not know.

My point. Religion is about beliving something, not knowing. As a result, no religion holds truth, because if it would be true, then you would know, and so we are back in the loop.

Every ounce of belif is acompenied by some disbelif, because if you do not disbelive it, you would know it is true, and then it turns to knowledge, not religion.

So, (and I state this thinking you answered yes to my first question) how can you both say christianety is a religion, you belive in God hand have faith in Him, and stil know what is true?
Superstition brings bad luck.
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Postby van » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:27 am

Silky



Belif= you think something is right
Faith= You hope something is right
Doupt/disbelif = you think something is not right
Despair= you think all hope is lost
Knowledge= you know something is right or wrong


Belief is also based on experience, ie that which has been tested
Belief is something that an honest person has no problem with in changing if proved wrong

Faith is based again on experience, ie I have faith that sun will rise in the morning and that if I jump off a high place and fall a considerable distance it will hurt if not kill me
There is of course "blind faith" where you rely on your guide dog to do his/her job
Blind faith also features in the "Darwin awards" ie the assumption that one is "bulletproof"
Religion is abit like that and politics too for that matter!

Doubt is a desirable feature for it makes you ask questions, instead of accepting BS, for preference HARD ONES!

Despair is not an option if you have "blind faith"

Knowledge is superceded by "blind faith" if you are religious, this applies particularly to those of a fundamentalist bent

Religions are all founded on belif and faith, meaning no one knows.


Blind faith and a parroting of a mantra

Every ounce of belif is acompenied by some disbelif, because if you do not disbelive it, you would know it is true, and then it turns to knowledge, not religion


Belief and doubt are handmaidens, facts destroy both belief and doubt leaving no room for religion

So, (and I state this thinking you answered yes to my first question) how can you both say christianety is a religion, you belive in God hand have faith in Him, and stil know what is true?


Nice one!
True christianity, like pacifism, vegetarianism, spirituality (awareness) etc is a way of life, not a religion
Religion is a power game "do as I say, or I shall smite thee!"
It is not about working to make a better world, but rather an endeavour to make you toe the line in harmony with the writings of some demented "prophets" who "hear" the voice of their alter ego
Have you ever noticed the number of "religious" pedophiles that appear before the courts of justice?
Ah, but they "believed in the mercy of god" and despite their actions believed, having "faith", they will be "saved"
Sad isn't it?
C'est la vie

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Postby pilvikki » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:26 am

interesting...

that aspect of the christian church is what bothers me the most: the damn forgiveness, which so often is only reserved for only one self!

i can judge you to be a worse person and thus i will punish you, maybe even kill you. oops, my mistake, but what the hell, i'll get forgiven anyway....

hello! what kind of system is that?
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Postby Silke » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:04 pm

If christianety is a way of life, then it isn´t a religion. It is a theory.

And besides... I don´t have faith in the fact that the sun will rise each morning, I know it will. When it rises depends on what time of year it is, when it decands the same, but as long as it isn´t the darkest period of year far north, I know the sun will rise.

If I see it is a diffrent matter.


Ah, but they "believed in the mercy of god" and despite their actions believed, having "faith", they will be "saved"
Sad isn't it?



This is true. However, in true christianety God is the only one who have the right to jude.

Matthew 7:1-2, states, "Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged," and Romans 14:4, 10-13, "Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God can make him stand. But why do you judge your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God... Therefore let us not be judging one another any longer," this plainly shows no true Christian should be executing judgment on anyone with respect sin. In fact this would be a usurping of God's exclusive right, i.e.,


This I´ve found while searching for arguments. As I see this, it means everyone who judes others to death or hell, condams himself/herself to the same hell.

However, how do you exist without juding? are we to trust blindly in the Lord, that he will protect us from dangorus men running down the road offering kids treats so the kids will come into the car with them? Or are we to teach those kids to jude for them selves which man to take a treat from? What about those juding kids? Will they be judes by the same standar that is the only one availeble to them; juding on looks, eyes, faceial expresions, smell and voice?

But then again, God stands for love and trust. If he say anything then it is so. He is forgiving. Jude what you like, if you with sencerety regret, then you are saved. The kids can jude, but will have to pay for it with uncertenty about their desision for the rest of their lives. Regret the juding because the only one to jude is God, that is only for Him. Regret that you didn´t walk willingly into the car, regret not trusting a stranger offering a treat if "only you would sit in my car for a little while".

I have another question though. If Jesus could not sin, then he could not have taken our sin by dying. He came down as human, and as all humans he came with a free will. Why would he beg his father for forgivenes, if he could not sin? then he wouldn´t have anything to ask forgivnes for. However, if he didn´t ask forgivnes, he would not have acepted the fact that he was only a man, so he would have been big on it and therefore sinned. Did he ask forgivnes only to have done that as well, so no one could say he had sinned that way?
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Postby van » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:07 pm

Silky

If christianety is a way of life, then it isn´t a religion. It is a theory.


True, however the power seekers have turned it into a religion
It is however not a theory
A theory is an assumption without positive proof
Christianity because of its insights in human nature, if adhered to, leads to a less violent more enjoyable life

But then again, God stands for love and trust.


If you read about the biblical "God", there is no love nor trust, rather subjection to some harsh rules and a smiting of monumental proportions if you fail to adhere to them

If Jesus could not sin, then he could not have taken our sin by dying.


The myth does not state that he could not sin for it speaks of him being tempted by the devil
It does say that he was born without sin, ie without any blemish or shortcomings
The myth also perpetuates the idea that sin can be overcome via sacrifice of an unblemished (sinless) animal sacrifice, ie jesus, "the sacrificial lamb"

The story becomes convoluted when one claims that jesus is god
He himself made it clear that he was not, "only god will judge"

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